I've also archived a copy of the mail that's gone back and forth between Jim and I. You can read that here.
| May, 2000. I want a hot tub. |
|
I decide to get a hot tub for the house. I am pushed into
actually purchasing one by seeing a sale at Home Depot and my
acceptance of a new job with a signing bonus that would cover the cost
of the spa. So, on a nice May Saturday I and a buddy truck over to Home
Depot
to look at spas. We check out the Jacuzzi Echo series, with the top
of the line at around $3500 bucks. We then drive down to Olympic Hot
Tubs, which sold Hot Springs tubs. There we are looking at $7,000
tubs. We then head home, and I go online to check things out.
I discover this online hot tub store, The Spa Specialist, which is located in Colorado. I located a page about buying a hot tub and what to watch out for, such as tiny "circ" pumps, 7 year warranties, and white Rovel shell. Hmmm... sounds like the Hot Springs. So I send the owner, Jim Arjuna, an e-mail asking about it. We then start a dialog and I get pretty curious about his Haven Springfield and Fallsburg spas. |
| June 12, 2000. The ol' Wet Test. |
|
Since there isn't a dealer in Seattle (that I know about) and I don't
feel like flying to Denver to sit in a tub, Jim sets me up with Gary, a
customer up in Camano Island, about 2 hours north of me. So I and a
buddy drive up and sit in a tub... mmm.. hot tub!
In talking with the owner, he tells me that his first go-round was somewhat problematic. Turns out that he got one of the first Fallsburgs and Phoenix Spa Co., which makes them for Jim, screwed up on the parts. Instead of having the proper jets, they were all one step down in quality. Oops. After this was realized, Jim personally came up to install the proper spa. So Gary's happy, and I'm reasonably impressed that Jim will provide a good spa and good service. I'm sold. |
| June 14, 2000. One-click shopping. |
| After returning from Camano Island, I end up placing an order for a Super Custom Fallsburg package w/ a Cranberry cover and Kalahari (a Quarite style) shell. This was on June 14. Wasn't sure what the SCF had over the normal Fallsburg (which I wet tested) besides more power, but I'm a guy. I need more power. Just because. |
| June 22, 2000. So when's it coming? |
| Jim says, "If all goes well, you should get your spa in about four weeks." Cue music, minor key. |
| July 31, 2000. Digging the trench. |
|
I hire an electrician to do the wiring, since I don't feel like
electrocuting myself if I screw up. The wiring is pretty simple; four
buddies and I dig a trench approximately 18" deep (code in Seattle)
and about 6 inches wide (overkill, but the width of a shovel) the
length of my house --- the power was on the SE corner, the tub was
going on the SW corner). The electrician then runs wire in a PVC
conduit down, into the trench, and back up into the GFCI which had
arrived a week or so after I had ordered the spa. He then just runs
some wire in seal-tight down in the trench and leaves a small whip at
the end, which actually won't be all that useful as it turns out (more
on that later).
Total cost is $700 cash; $280 for labor (2 guys, 4 hours each, $35 an hour) and another $620 for parts, mostly wire (about 50 feet worth; seemed a bit steep to me...). |
| Aug. 9, 2000. It's coming! |
| I hear from Bruce Van Dyke, who is one of the guys Jim has deliver and install spas, that mine is ready and he'll be trucking up to WA with mine and some others, and I'd be getting mine on Sat. Aug. 12. Woot! |
| Aug. 11, 2000. It ain't... |
| I call the Friday beforehand and talk to Mary, Bruce's wife, who tells me that there is a problem with the spa (apparently the holes for the pillows weren't aligned properly) and it won't be ready for another week. Sigh. Interesting thing to note is that I made the call to find out about the problem. This might be a recurring theme. :) |
| Aug. 24th, 2000. It's really coming! |
| On Thurs. the 24th, I get a call from this other guy (I want to say Bill, but could be mistaken). He says he's coming up to deliver the spa, and wants directions to my place, which I provide. Also asks if I can make sure I have a buddy to help unload the spa from the truck, as he thinks it's a bit more than a two-man job. No problem, I say. |
| Aug. 26th, 2000. Here it is! |
|
Bill called at 7:30 AM (yawn) and said he was getting some breakfast
about 2 blocks away and would be there at 8. I call my buddy Ruben,
and he arrives just after 8 as well.
The spa arrives resting on two 4x4s on the back of a Chevy pickup. Bill drives the pickup adjacent to my front yard (it's raised about a foot from the sidewalk), and he, Ruben, and I slide the spa off the 4x4s onto its side in my front yard. BTW, he never turned his truck off... weird. So the spa is in the front yard; time to install it! I ask Bill about installation, and he said that Spa Specialist has installers all over the country, and he is just delivering. I ask if the installer was Bruce, but turns out Bruce was this guy's brother-in-law and owned the trucking company, Van Dyke Trucking, so someone else must be the installer. No problem, I said. I'll just call up Jim and see where the installer is. He then dumps off the rest of my stuff and heads back to Redding in somewhat of a hurry. This might be a bad sign. I also notice that the boxes the stuff that came with the spa --- cover, starter chemicals, thermal blanket --- are totally thrashed. Seems they were left out in at least one, but probably multiple, rain storms and left to dry. One box was just held together with some duct tape. Turns out later that Bruce has had the stuff since early August (when my spa was supposed to be ready) and must have just left them outside in CA until his brother-in-law came up here. Go Bruce. It's only 8:30 AM PST, and since Spa Specialist opens at 9 PST (10 MST) I have some breakfast. I call at about 10:15 asking when the installer is going to come move and install the tub. Apparently, Bruce was supposed to install it, and was paid to do so. Whoops. Unclear to me if there was something lost in the translation between Bruce and his brother-in-law or if his brother-in-law just flaked, but it was quite clear that there was a fairly large communications gaff. Not to worry, Jim knows somebody in Seattle named Louie who does installs for 'em. After all, no install is complete without a guy named Louie. So, the rest of the day I play phone tag with Mary (Bruce's wife), Sandy (Jim's wife), Jim, and finally Bruce. Jim says Bruce was supposed to install it, Bruce says he gave clear instructions to his brother-in-law, yadda yadda yadda. So Jim finds some local movers to install the spa; turns out Louie isn't available. We get the spa into position, I give some beers to the two movers, and start unpacking the spa! Turns out the spa also had some damage on it. The redwood panel on the west side (where the pumps are) had a big gash in it and would need to be replaced. Also, the neck pillow was discolored and looked very used. The filter casing also had a little discoloration in it, but wasn't that bad. Talked with Jim, not a problem, they'd replace the panel and the pillow. The pillow was not a problem, but the panel might take a while as the Phoenix wood shop tended to get backlogged. Anyway, I then go about and hook up the wiring. It's pretty easy; I just bore a larger opening in the corner (there's actually already an opening at the base of every corner, about 1.5" high and 3" wide... I thought this is supposed to be "sealed?" ), then run the wire up and over the heater control to go into the left side. Then I hook up the wires. I have to strip them of some of the copper though... the openings for where you attach the wire seemed to be set for smaller than the 6 gauge copper they require you get for 60 amp service. Ah, details. Well, time to turn it on! I hit the breaker, and on it goes! Some residual water spits out; they test the spas before they leave the shop for leaks. Anyway, I toss the garden hose in and turn it on, and then set about checking out the rest of the goodies. Couple of cases of shock, Ph Up, Ph Down, chlorine concentrate, extra filters, ionizer, etc. Jim did a reasonable packing job, just wrapping the various cannisters in some closed-cell foam and then sticking in a big piece of foam into the box (box was 2' x 2' by 5', mostly to suite the lifter box inside). Hmm... where's the thermal blanket? It's not... it is. Weird. Turns out the big piece of foam is actually cut somewhat like the inside of the spa, just very badly. This is the thermal blanket I paid $79 as part of the package for? $0.25 a square foot quarter-inch closed-cell foam and a hack job with a utility knife? Sheesh, at least they could have used a rotary cutter. Ooh! The spa's at 93... nice day out, water's fresh... good enough! My fiance, I, and one of our friends jumps in. Aaahhh... hot tub! Just don't turn on the blower, the air is still cold. |
| Aug. 27, 2000. Problems begin. |
|
Hmmm... the spa is just at 96. Woulda sworn I got the programming
right yesterday. Oh well, let me redo it and I'll look at it tonight.
Well, look at it some six hours later, it's at 93. That's weird. The two wavy lines are showing, and I see "HL" in the lower LCD, which I guess means it's heating... I'll give it until tomorrow. So I set up the cover lifter, which takes me a couple of hours since you need to align things just so, and then head in to work. Back from work... 92. Not good. |
| Aug. 28, 2000. Problems persist. |
| Jim sends confirmation about ordering the redwood panel. Asks if the spa is working OK, I tell him that it's still not heating. I also call, but Jim's not there, just Dave. I mention the wavy lines are there and it says "HL." Dave tells me that's a bad thing --- HL means "Heat Limiter" which means the heater is turned off because it's getting too hot. Um... OK... but why is the tub at 94F then? |
| Aug. 31, 2000. Still lukewarm. |
| Jim replies; asks me to call tomorrow when I'm near the spa. Turns out I'll need to do some "low-level" programming on the heater control. |
| Sept. 1, 2000. Still lukewarm. Notice a pattern? |
|
I call Dave (one of Jim's workers) and he walks me through it. We get it
set up, set the light to three levels of intensity (it came with just
one set), set the blower to three levels of intensity (it also came
with just one set), and set the heater to work from the large pump.
Do that. Results? Blower is better, light is better, HL still on. Dave's confused; he'll call Jim and see if he can't find a more in-depth service manual on the Web. Bad sign. But he will get a technician out to see it. Good sign. |
| Sept. 9, 2000. Ruben and I play detective. |
|
Warm week in Seattle, so 95F is OK. Actually, one day the spa temp
gets to about 107! Wow, maybe it just took awhile... nope. False
alarm. Wonder when the tech is coming, it's been over a week.
Anyway, the weather has started to turn, so we can't use the spa. Ruben's over, so he and I go outside and look at the pumps to see if there isn't a way to bypass the heat limiter or something. We take off the panels by the heat unit (south side) and pumps (west side). We notice that some of these cut-off valves are in the closed or partially closed positions... that's not good. They're held open by this little bit of hose sliced down the middle, but it's come loose on one and isn't present on the other. So we open up the valves, and I take the hose from the valve in the access panel (easiest access) and put it on the valve that's missing the hose (behind the heater; pain in the ass to access). We look at the filter... Ruben noticed that some of the flotsam isn't heading into the filter. When we looked at the Hot Springs spas, it was clear that a lot of water was moving past the filters. Placing my hand over the filter housing, I feel no suction whatsoever. Are these even working? We also notice the air blower leaks a fair amount, which means it's blowing a fair amount of air around the cabinet for no good reason. Sigh. This musta been a Friday afternoon spa. |
| Sept. 10, 2000. Things start to turn. |
|
I send mail to Jim outlining what I've found out so far. The HL trips
when you run any of the pumps or blower after about a minute or so,
and the spa is only about 10 degrees warmer than the outside
temp. Since it's getting colder, this isn't good. I also say I'm
starting to get a bit frustrated; after all, it's been over a week,
and the spa is still only tepid. Finally, I ask him to call me so we
can go over the final bill. Delivery and install was $350, and
installing the cover lifter was another $50. Jim says he'll refund
$150 for my part. This doesn't go over well with me; Jim makes a big
deal about how $350 is a bargain since he normally charges $65/hr plus
$35/hr for a helper and installs tend to take 4 hours. I pretty much
spent the entire day on Saturday and half of Sunday on the install,
and have been calling / e-mailing Jim and Dave trying to get this
thing working. I figure I spent about 10 hours on this total, so at
his hourly rate, that's $650. I send Jim some e-mail saying let's make
the discount $500 and we'll call it even.
Jim thinks this is unreasonable. He makes a big stink about how great a spa it is, and how factors outside his control are causing it not to work right, all his other customers are satisfied, and how dare I get mad at him for trying to solve the problem as best he can. If the $150 isn't good enough, then he'll refund my money and come get the spa. I then point out that it's been two weeks since delivery and the spa heater still isn't functioning, and nobody's called to tell me when the technician is coming, which probably means one isn't. I then say if he wants to keep me as a satisfied customer to credit me $500 and have the spa fixed by the end of the week, otherwise I'll take him up on his offer to refund my money. I'm now thinking that it's likely I'll be taking him up on his offer. I begin to price out the Phoenix Coronado and the parts Jim shipped me as part of the package. I do a MetaCrawler search for Phoenix Coronado... hey, Phoenix has a web page! Nice. Hey, they have a dealer in Federal Way! Even nicer. I give 'em a call... they're closed. I leave a message asking about the Coronado. |
| Sept. 12, 2000. Moving right along. |
|
Jim replies; says Dave is going to call me today. Doesn't mention
anything about the $500.
Dave calls me. Says he's trying to find a technician. The one he normally uses is booked for two weeks, and the other one they use considers Seattle to be too far north. So he's checking around on Yahoo! to see what he can find. So he's going to be trusting some random technicians he found on the Web to fix my spa and make me a satisfied customer. OK, sure. I tell Dave to be sure and call my by Thursday just to give me an update on where he is. He says he'll do this. |
| Sept. 13, 2000. Is this a diverter valve? |
|
I notice that there's this large control between the lounge and the
hot-seat that seems to divert water to one or the other. A diverter
valve? That can't be. One of Jim's big selling points is that this spa
doesn't have any. I make a post to Jim's message board asking about
two things on the spa; So what is this? The second is asking if the
filter is working as it should --- it seems very underpowered to me. I
figure it'll be easier than the two day lag I'm getting with Jim since
he's on the road delivering and installing spas for other people.
I get a call back from the dealer in Federal Way, Pacific Spa Options. I'm in a meeting, so don't have much time to chat, but I do get a price on a Coronado with no extra options. $5,650. Jim sells the Fallsburg (the NORMAL one, not the Super Custom) for $6,472.62. $80 for poorly cut closed-cell foam, $180 for some stained wood steps, $350 for delivery and install when I could get that free by paying $800 less down in Federal Way. Boy, don't I feel like I made a good investment. |
| Sept. 14, 2000. Reaching the breaking point... |
|
I return home to find a note on my door from Crystal Clear Spa & Pool
Service in Edmonds, WA (about 30 min north of Seattle). Turns out they
came by, but the door was locked and the gate to my back yard was
closed. Gee, how surprising, considering I didn't know they were
coming.
I send mail to Jim saying I'll take him up on his offer. After all, if you can't even call a cranky customer and tell him that somebody is en route to fix things, what does this say about an ongoing relationship? |
| Sept. 15, 2000. A ray of hope? |
|
I get a message back from Jim saying it looks like Phoenix totally
screwed up the plumbing in my spa, and that yes I had a diverter
valve. He also didn't allow my post to go through to the message
board. That's curious. Especially since a day or two before he had
posted a message saying he doesn't censor anyone except for this one
guy who kept spamming him. Hmm.
Anyway, his new offer is that he'll get this current spa working, and have another one built and deliver that one himself. No mention of any renumeration however, which probably means there isn't any. I leave for work, leaving the gate open so the guys from Crystal Clear can actually take a look-see at the spa. I return home, and see a note from the Crystal Clear guys. They say the Heat Limiter is stuck in the "On" position and they don't have the part to fix it. Great. The same day, I get a message on my machine from Dave. He says he's sorry about all the screw-ups and he thought the the spa tech from Crystal Clear would be calling. Goody, once again letting somebody else handle customer support. Sigh. However, he does say essentially the same thing as Jim, except they'll be crediting my account the $4,650. This perks my attention... half off for all the time and trouble? That'll make me a true believer! But it's probably too good to be true. So I e-mail Jim a confirmation. |
| Sept. 16, 2000. I'm declared an unreasonable customer. |
|
I get mail in the morning from Sandy, Jim's wife. She says that she
suggested to Dave to credit back half until the new spa is installed,
which I presume to mean they'll then re-bill me the full amount. OK,
I've had enough... I'm feeling like I'm being overcharged for a spa
that isn't the one I ordered and doesn't even work, and being asked to
wait a few extra weeks to actually get the right one. I've had enough.
So I send mail back, outlining three options:
I get a pretty nasty message declaring that I'm an unreasonable customer, and I need to turn around and start behaving. My proposal is ridiculous, and an insult, and the only options for me is 1/2 down until delivery of the new spa or total refund and they pick up the spa. Well, I think we're at an understanding... Jim doesn't want my business, and I don't want to give it to him. So I tell him to come get the spa. Pacific Spa Options, here I come! |
| How it finally ended up |
|
My credit card company found in my favor, and Jim sent some folks to
come pick up the spa and haul it away. He ranted and raved about it on
his board, and loves to talk about the "Erik Saga" or the "Erik Scam."
Usually he spells my name correctly.
My father-in-law has a spa out in Ohio. I talked to him about it, and he said it was locally made out there and he got both a good deal as well as good service on it. This got me to thinking that it might be time to support the local economy versus the Internet economy. So, I started looking at the local dealers. I ended up talking to the great folks (Brian & Brian) at ClearWater Spas. After looking to see what they had, I ended up purchasing an UltraSage. It was delivered on Oct. 31, 2000, and my wife and I have been loving it ever since! As it turned out, Jim's spa was basically a middle-of-the-road spa at premium prices. In particular, here were some of the corners cut compared to a quality spa such as the ClearWater spas:
|
| Apr. 17, 2001. Jim can't stand the heat. |
| Apparently, Jim didn't like the fact that I posted this on my personal web pages. At the time, they were still hosted at the University of Washington Dept. of Computer Science and Engineering, my alma-mater. Jim bitched to the chairman, so I had to move 'em elsewhere. Initially I moved them to a site on Excite@Home, but since they decided to fall on their sword, I'm now hosting them on my own site. |
| Final thoughts |
|
I'm often contacted by people who are wondering whether or not to buy
from Jim Arjuna, the Spa Specialist. Frankly, you could read this and
decide that I was just the unfortunate one who reacted badly. After
all, even BMW has unsatisfied customers. But sadly, I gotta say based
not only on my experience but others I think it's an extremely risky
proposition to do business with Jim Arjuna.
To be fair, on the plus side he's been in business for a while, and appears to still be in business and has a number of people who say great things about him. I did get a full refund (although Jim had little choice on this, as I had called my credit card company and had 'em reverse the charges). On the other hand, the customer service here was not just botched, but botched badly and multiple steps along the way. When I've had issues with the ClearWater (and with any spa, you will have issues), they've been out within a week, usually within a day or two. Just the setup issues alone were handled so badly and without any consideration for what I was going through indicates to me that The Spa Specialist isn't interested in making things right if it cuts into their bottom line. Furthermore, Jim has a known reputation as being a hothead on message boards, and has made himself a number of enemies on the boards and in the trade. Everyone is going to have a couple people that they won't get along with, but when it's enough people that Jim's own customers are calling them "Jim's enemies" you gotta wonder what he's done to deserve their ire. So, if he'll react badly online in random conversation, what could make him react badly to you? (I found out for myself it was asking for some kind of consideration for bad service). Spas are ~$10K goodies. That's a decent chunk of change. Whatever you do, explore the local dealers and see what they offer and compare it to what Jim offers, so you can make a good choice. Remember the goal: enjoying a spa. If the price looks good, and you're not put off by the above, then buy a spa from him. If all this seems to put too much risk into it, buy something locally. If you have problems, make whomever sold you the spa, Jim or another dealer, fix it, or return the sucker and buy from somebody else. Repeat until you can enjoy your own spa -- that'll last for years, versus just the month or three you spend researching and buying. |
| June 22, 2003 |
|
My, time flies. Apparently while I was enjoying my spa, things got
worse. Another gentleman who goes by Andy S. had similar problems. He
bought a spa, and it didn't work after repeated attempts to get it to
work. So, he called his credit card company, got his money back, and
compelled Jim to haul the defective spa away. In addition, some folks
put up a site on Tripod with my story, Andy's, and a host of other
information. The sad bit is that looks like Jim ranted to Tripod and
had 'em yank the site. It can be found in a ZIP file floating on some
boards, such as www.poolandspa.com, but I figured
I'd save you the trouble and post a link here.
I'd say I did it with permission of the authors, but they're
anonymous, probably for good reason. :)
|